Vane wrote:Aside from Poe I didn't really like any of the new characters in TFA. Rey's alright, but I feel like because people want to know her lineage that makes her seem more interesting than she actually is. Although we're comparing three films of character development versus one to be fair, hopefully they flesh them out a bit more in ep.8 & 9.
Poe bugged me because he should have been Wedge, but that's my hang up and not actually the movies fault. The problem with the Poe character is that the trailers spoiled his survival in the crash, otherwise I think his reappearance in the movie later on would have been pretty good.
As for the other characters, I really do like Rey. She feels like a fresh character, and despite her cheat code level ups, I think she was one of the better parts of that movie. Finn was a great character for the audience, as his reactions to situations around him have been the most grounded in the entire Star Wars saga, but from a plot standpoint his usefulness pretty much ended when he told Rey about BB-8's mission. From there on in, he's pretty pointless.
JerrodDRagon wrote:I do want to say Kylo is kinda good villain....I just dont like him. He's a millennial villain, he's a pussy who want to be a badass like his Grand father, but just bitches and moans about nothing, he whines and is angry about nothing he faces no real challenges in his life let joins the dark side because he wants to be different.
In a way its masterful, but at the same time I have ZERO respect for him and along with Ray just becoming one with the force in her first fight (they even had an easy out of having Finn and Ray double teaming him and winning but fuck that Girl power)
Teen angst in a 30 year old seems weird though. I would appreciate him more if he was younger and they gave more reasons as to why he was the way he is. But JJ loves mysteries and so episodes 8 and 9 will have to fill in that story. So as of right now, Kylo Ren is my Jar Jar.
The Prequels also gave us Clone Wars which was such a fucking awesome show and gave us Ahsoka tano, Cad Bane, the return of Maul (and his badass brother), Deathwatch mandalorians, Rex and just some of the most interesting story's told.
Yaaaas! And the fact that Lucas was heavily involved with the series shows how great of a story teller he actually is. He just needs someone else to write his scripts.
Raging Light wrote:> Villians - I already conceded that Kylo Ren isn't perfect but you can't compare him to Anakin or Palpatine. Ren is better than every single villain in the prequels besides Darth Maul. He was a tangible threat that had presence in every scene he was in. He had good acting, good dialogue and good overall presentation to back up his character. The only problem with him was his overly telegraphed murder of Han Solo and his defeat against a Jedi novice that hasn't trained a day in her life. Snoke doesn't count because he didn't do enough in the movie for us gauge what he even is yet.
Just look at how vast the difference is between Kylo Ren and Prequel Palpatine.
Everyone that worked on that scene in Episode 3 should be ashamed of themselves. Palpatine is grunting and hissing like a snake, he keeps turning CGI mid-fight to do flips and twirls and lightsaber swings, his dialogue is horrific, the fight choreography in general sucks, the list goes on and on.
The comparison between Kylo and Anakin is their whiny temper tantrums and them wanting to be more powerful. Especially Ep2 Anakin. He was a tangible threat until any one with an ounce of ability actually stood up for themselves. The only reason he was threatening (to other characters) was because of his look and the unstable look of his saber. Once the mask came off, and another force sensitive came up against him, all of that intimidation vanished. Maul was a 2D character in TPM, but he was a physical threat to two trained Jedi. Dooku was more of a psychological threat, because he represented that Jedi can be turned, no matter how well trained they are. He also had a way with words, and could convince various systems to raise an army for him to fight the corruption. Let's not forget that he took on both Obi and Ani and destroyed them. So while visually he wasn't intimidating compared to Maul and Vader, he was still a huge threat. Grievous is easily the weakest of the bunch, supposed to be a proto-Vader while not being a force user. What makes him interesting is not his physicality but his cowardice which is unusual in a SW villain.
> Story - I admit that TFA has no plot but that doesn't mean the prequels win this by default. They have an overarching story that sounds better on paper than in motion. Both sides were being lead by Palpatine to fight each other so he could get emergency dictatorship powers. The Separatists didn't even have a legitimate cause for war until Palpatine was revealed as the Emperor. Anakin's rise from slave boy to Sith Lord made no sense either. He literally turned to the Dark Side because he had a bad dream about Padme. And one of the first things he does as Darth Vader is choke the very girl he went to the Dark Side to protect. The whole point of the prequels was to establish how Anakin and Palpatine got in power. If the primary focus of the story is this nonsensical and poorly executed, that speaks volumes for the rest of it. Padme conveniently loses her will to live... Obiwan sees Leia being born in Episode 3 but forgets that in Episode 5... This is not a masterful story being weaved here.
The Separatists did have a reason for war, it was because the Senate was corrupted by Palpatine. In episode 3 Padme even questions if they are on the wrong side of this war, because everything the Separatists were fighting for was legitimate. Like I said, they were the failed Rebellion doomed to failure because Palpatine was pulling their strings.
Anakin's fall was more than just a bad dream. From the beginning the Jedi didn't want him. There was contention from the council as to whether he was actually the Chosen One, and I don't think Windu ever really trusted Anakin. In the beginning of Ep2 Anakin tells Padme that he feels held back, he's been told how great his destiny is, and he can see it himself, but Obi-Wan and the council try stunting his development. Obi-Wan is a traditional Jedi, and tried to train Anakin "Like Yoda Taught Me", because Ani started many years later than a normal Jedi he didn't get taught the basics by Yoda and the Temple, instead being fast tracked to Padawan. Some people question whether Anakin would have fallen to the Darkside if Qui-Gon had been his master, since he was a less traditional master. On top of that, you have to remember that Palpatine has been whispering in Anakins ear, being a sympathetic counsel to Anakin when the Jedi ignored him. Then his Mother dies, and it shows Anakin how powerless he and the Jedi actually are. This factors into the dream later on. Then the Clone Wars happen, and he becomes the hero of the Jedi. Ep 3 begins and once again he's facing losing someone. This is Anakin's greatest weakness, attachment, something the Jedi recognized early when they gave him a Padawan, but what they didn't count on was Palpatine feeding him idea's that he could be more powerful. While the Jedi told Anakin to let go and be at peace, Palpatine was telling him he didn't have to, which is what Anakin wanted to hear. The Jedi put Anakin on the council, but don't give him the rank of master, which is unheard of. So despite all the good he's done during the Clone Wars, once again they are holding him back in his eyes, though from the Councils point of view its because of Palpatines forcing their hand. Then they ask him to spy on the Chancellor, the one man who always had his back, because they think he's corrupt, which he is, but for Anakin it's all about them asking to betray his friend. Again, Anakin has attachment problems, but on top of that it highlights the shadiness of the Jedi which puts doubt in his mind.
Palpatine reveals himself, and Anakin has to make a choice: Let Windu kill Palpatine which is not the Jedi way, or save Palpatine in hopes of learning his secrets. Realistically there was only one way Anakin could choose, because Windu gave him no choice. Had Windu listened to Anakin and locked Palpatine up, everyone would be happy, but no Windu wanted to kill him. So Anakin defended the prisoner, which is the Jedi way. Anakin betrays the Jedi, and saves Palpatine but he instantly regrets it and in response allows Palpatine to make the choices for him. Now to justify his actions he paints the Jedi as evil, they wanted him to spy, they wanted him to kill, the Jedi had become evil. And so he goes about eradicating the Jedi Order and ending this war. Jump over to Mustafar and Anakin is trying to convince Padme to join him, he's going to learn how to save her, but Padme doesn't want that. Then Obi-Wan appears, for a while now Anakin has suspected something between Obi and Padme, he's sensed Obi's presense at their home. Obi was sought Padme's council about Anakin's problems, but to Anakin, he suspects more. Jealousy takes over, and then uncontrollable anger, so he chokes her, but let's go before killing her. He hadn't 100% turned yet, but when Palpatine tells him later on that Padme died and that he killed her. Anakin completely turns.
Padme's death is weird, but it's not 100% unthinkable. People do lose the ability to live. You often see it in widowers, where they pass away within a year before losing their partner. Anakin crushed her spirit and her heart and the trauma of childbirth was too much. Again, it's weak, but works. As for Obi-Wan's forgetting Leia? I don't think that's true, he's spent 20 years protecting and eventually grooming Luke to be the one to take down the Sith that I don't think it's crossed his mind that Leia could do it. He placed all his bets on Luke, so for him to lose is for the galaxy to lose. Where as for Yoda who has kept his distance from the twins considers both options as viable.
JerrodDRagon wrote:At least Phantom Menace has a badass fight scene at the end....Clone Wars feels both rushed and slow all at the same time. With GIANT leaps of what the fuck is going on here from Doku (so he hates the republic for being controlled by the sith...yet he works for the sith?)...the trade federation once again risking everything for revenge? Form Padme and Anikin who never really loves the other...Anikin just thinks she is hot (he hates politics) and she finds him creepy and childish in the start and then Anikin murders Sandpeople children and is just ok with it? Obi Wan also is a lucky mouth fucker for finding the clones. Also if the Clones are being made why hide them?
So many fucking BS shit going on at least the other two make sense and don't feel as plot holey and forced as this film.
You mean Attack of the Clones lol, Clone Wars was the Animated movie. Dooku doesn't hate the Sith, In his eyes he's playing Palpatine's long game. He expects that when Palpatine takes control that he will be at his side. Everything he says about the Sith and their control is a lie to get people to join his "cause" so that Palpatine can take control. The Trade Federations involvement stems from the way they were treated in TPM, they were coerced by the Sith to blockade Naboo under the guise of it "being legal". If I remember correctly they were shunned by the Republic for their actions at Naboo, and were heavily fined and de-armed. So when Count Dooku arrives on the scene, he is able to sweet talk them against the Republic. The Trade Federation is unaware that they are once again Palpatines pawns. Totally agree with creepy Anakin, that love story was extremely forced. As to why the Clone Army was hidden? Apparently Master Sifo-Dyas had a preminition of the upcoming war, and asked the council to prepare for it with their own Army of the Republic. But, he was turned down, so in secret he went to Kamino and ordered a Clone Army and erased his trail. The only reason they were found was because Jango was hired to kill Padme and Obi-Wan traced him back to his home on Kamino. Master Sifo-Dyas was killed long before Obi-Wan ever found the Clones, otherwise I'd say as soon as they need came, he would have revealed their existence. With an Army at their disposal and a conflict on Geonosis brewing, the Jedi put the Clones to work.