User avatar
Mavryk
Management
Management
Posts: 5114
Joined: May 16, '15, 10:34pm
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
PSN: MavrykDH
Steam: mavryk_darkhaven
Contact: Twitter

Re: Star Wars episodes 1-3

May 11, '17, 7:36pm

Vane wrote:Aside from Poe I didn't really like any of the new characters in TFA. Rey's alright, but I feel like because people want to know her lineage that makes her seem more interesting than she actually is. Although we're comparing three films of character development versus one to be fair, hopefully they flesh them out a bit more in ep.8 & 9.


Poe bugged me because he should have been Wedge, but that's my hang up and not actually the movies fault. The problem with the Poe character is that the trailers spoiled his survival in the crash, otherwise I think his reappearance in the movie later on would have been pretty good.

As for the other characters, I really do like Rey. She feels like a fresh character, and despite her cheat code level ups, I think she was one of the better parts of that movie. Finn was a great character for the audience, as his reactions to situations around him have been the most grounded in the entire Star Wars saga, but from a plot standpoint his usefulness pretty much ended when he told Rey about BB-8's mission. From there on in, he's pretty pointless.

JerrodDRagon wrote:I do want to say Kylo is kinda good villain....I just dont like him. He's a millennial villain, he's a pussy who want to be a badass like his Grand father, but just bitches and moans about nothing, he whines and is angry about nothing he faces no real challenges in his life let joins the dark side because he wants to be different.

In a way its masterful, but at the same time I have ZERO respect for him and along with Ray just becoming one with the force in her first fight (they even had an easy out of having Finn and Ray double teaming him and winning but fuck that Girl power)


Teen angst in a 30 year old seems weird though. I would appreciate him more if he was younger and they gave more reasons as to why he was the way he is. But JJ loves mysteries and so episodes 8 and 9 will have to fill in that story. So as of right now, Kylo Ren is my Jar Jar.

The Prequels also gave us Clone Wars which was such a fucking awesome show and gave us Ahsoka tano, Cad Bane, the return of Maul (and his badass brother), Deathwatch mandalorians, Rex and just some of the most interesting story's told.


Yaaaas! And the fact that Lucas was heavily involved with the series shows how great of a story teller he actually is. He just needs someone else to write his scripts.

Raging Light wrote:> Villians - I already conceded that Kylo Ren isn't perfect but you can't compare him to Anakin or Palpatine. Ren is better than every single villain in the prequels besides Darth Maul. He was a tangible threat that had presence in every scene he was in. He had good acting, good dialogue and good overall presentation to back up his character. The only problem with him was his overly telegraphed murder of Han Solo and his defeat against a Jedi novice that hasn't trained a day in her life. Snoke doesn't count because he didn't do enough in the movie for us gauge what he even is yet.

Just look at how vast the difference is between Kylo Ren and Prequel Palpatine.

Everyone that worked on that scene in Episode 3 should be ashamed of themselves. Palpatine is grunting and hissing like a snake, he keeps turning CGI mid-fight to do flips and twirls and lightsaber swings, his dialogue is horrific, the fight choreography in general sucks, the list goes on and on.


The comparison between Kylo and Anakin is their whiny temper tantrums and them wanting to be more powerful. Especially Ep2 Anakin. He was a tangible threat until any one with an ounce of ability actually stood up for themselves. The only reason he was threatening (to other characters) was because of his look and the unstable look of his saber. Once the mask came off, and another force sensitive came up against him, all of that intimidation vanished. Maul was a 2D character in TPM, but he was a physical threat to two trained Jedi. Dooku was more of a psychological threat, because he represented that Jedi can be turned, no matter how well trained they are. He also had a way with words, and could convince various systems to raise an army for him to fight the corruption. Let's not forget that he took on both Obi and Ani and destroyed them. So while visually he wasn't intimidating compared to Maul and Vader, he was still a huge threat. Grievous is easily the weakest of the bunch, supposed to be a proto-Vader while not being a force user. What makes him interesting is not his physicality but his cowardice which is unusual in a SW villain.

> Story - I admit that TFA has no plot but that doesn't mean the prequels win this by default. They have an overarching story that sounds better on paper than in motion. Both sides were being lead by Palpatine to fight each other so he could get emergency dictatorship powers. The Separatists didn't even have a legitimate cause for war until Palpatine was revealed as the Emperor. Anakin's rise from slave boy to Sith Lord made no sense either. He literally turned to the Dark Side because he had a bad dream about Padme. And one of the first things he does as Darth Vader is choke the very girl he went to the Dark Side to protect. The whole point of the prequels was to establish how Anakin and Palpatine got in power. If the primary focus of the story is this nonsensical and poorly executed, that speaks volumes for the rest of it. Padme conveniently loses her will to live... Obiwan sees Leia being born in Episode 3 but forgets that in Episode 5... This is not a masterful story being weaved here.


The Separatists did have a reason for war, it was because the Senate was corrupted by Palpatine. In episode 3 Padme even questions if they are on the wrong side of this war, because everything the Separatists were fighting for was legitimate. Like I said, they were the failed Rebellion doomed to failure because Palpatine was pulling their strings.

Anakin's fall was more than just a bad dream. From the beginning the Jedi didn't want him. There was contention from the council as to whether he was actually the Chosen One, and I don't think Windu ever really trusted Anakin. In the beginning of Ep2 Anakin tells Padme that he feels held back, he's been told how great his destiny is, and he can see it himself, but Obi-Wan and the council try stunting his development. Obi-Wan is a traditional Jedi, and tried to train Anakin "Like Yoda Taught Me", because Ani started many years later than a normal Jedi he didn't get taught the basics by Yoda and the Temple, instead being fast tracked to Padawan. Some people question whether Anakin would have fallen to the Darkside if Qui-Gon had been his master, since he was a less traditional master. On top of that, you have to remember that Palpatine has been whispering in Anakins ear, being a sympathetic counsel to Anakin when the Jedi ignored him. Then his Mother dies, and it shows Anakin how powerless he and the Jedi actually are. This factors into the dream later on. Then the Clone Wars happen, and he becomes the hero of the Jedi. Ep 3 begins and once again he's facing losing someone. This is Anakin's greatest weakness, attachment, something the Jedi recognized early when they gave him a Padawan, but what they didn't count on was Palpatine feeding him idea's that he could be more powerful. While the Jedi told Anakin to let go and be at peace, Palpatine was telling him he didn't have to, which is what Anakin wanted to hear. The Jedi put Anakin on the council, but don't give him the rank of master, which is unheard of. So despite all the good he's done during the Clone Wars, once again they are holding him back in his eyes, though from the Councils point of view its because of Palpatines forcing their hand. Then they ask him to spy on the Chancellor, the one man who always had his back, because they think he's corrupt, which he is, but for Anakin it's all about them asking to betray his friend. Again, Anakin has attachment problems, but on top of that it highlights the shadiness of the Jedi which puts doubt in his mind.

Palpatine reveals himself, and Anakin has to make a choice: Let Windu kill Palpatine which is not the Jedi way, or save Palpatine in hopes of learning his secrets. Realistically there was only one way Anakin could choose, because Windu gave him no choice. Had Windu listened to Anakin and locked Palpatine up, everyone would be happy, but no Windu wanted to kill him. So Anakin defended the prisoner, which is the Jedi way. Anakin betrays the Jedi, and saves Palpatine but he instantly regrets it and in response allows Palpatine to make the choices for him. Now to justify his actions he paints the Jedi as evil, they wanted him to spy, they wanted him to kill, the Jedi had become evil. And so he goes about eradicating the Jedi Order and ending this war. Jump over to Mustafar and Anakin is trying to convince Padme to join him, he's going to learn how to save her, but Padme doesn't want that. Then Obi-Wan appears, for a while now Anakin has suspected something between Obi and Padme, he's sensed Obi's presense at their home. Obi was sought Padme's council about Anakin's problems, but to Anakin, he suspects more. Jealousy takes over, and then uncontrollable anger, so he chokes her, but let's go before killing her. He hadn't 100% turned yet, but when Palpatine tells him later on that Padme died and that he killed her. Anakin completely turns.

Padme's death is weird, but it's not 100% unthinkable. People do lose the ability to live. You often see it in widowers, where they pass away within a year before losing their partner. Anakin crushed her spirit and her heart and the trauma of childbirth was too much. Again, it's weak, but works. As for Obi-Wan's forgetting Leia? I don't think that's true, he's spent 20 years protecting and eventually grooming Luke to be the one to take down the Sith that I don't think it's crossed his mind that Leia could do it. He placed all his bets on Luke, so for him to lose is for the galaxy to lose. Where as for Yoda who has kept his distance from the twins considers both options as viable.

JerrodDRagon wrote:At least Phantom Menace has a badass fight scene at the end....Clone Wars feels both rushed and slow all at the same time. With GIANT leaps of what the fuck is going on here from Doku (so he hates the republic for being controlled by the sith...yet he works for the sith?)...the trade federation once again risking everything for revenge? Form Padme and Anikin who never really loves the other...Anikin just thinks she is hot (he hates politics) and she finds him creepy and childish in the start and then Anikin murders Sandpeople children and is just ok with it? Obi Wan also is a lucky mouth fucker for finding the clones. Also if the Clones are being made why hide them?
So many fucking BS shit going on at least the other two make sense and don't feel as plot holey and forced as this film.


You mean Attack of the Clones lol, Clone Wars was the Animated movie. Dooku doesn't hate the Sith, In his eyes he's playing Palpatine's long game. He expects that when Palpatine takes control that he will be at his side. Everything he says about the Sith and their control is a lie to get people to join his "cause" so that Palpatine can take control. The Trade Federations involvement stems from the way they were treated in TPM, they were coerced by the Sith to blockade Naboo under the guise of it "being legal". If I remember correctly they were shunned by the Republic for their actions at Naboo, and were heavily fined and de-armed. So when Count Dooku arrives on the scene, he is able to sweet talk them against the Republic. The Trade Federation is unaware that they are once again Palpatines pawns. Totally agree with creepy Anakin, that love story was extremely forced. As to why the Clone Army was hidden? Apparently Master Sifo-Dyas had a preminition of the upcoming war, and asked the council to prepare for it with their own Army of the Republic. But, he was turned down, so in secret he went to Kamino and ordered a Clone Army and erased his trail. The only reason they were found was because Jango was hired to kill Padme and Obi-Wan traced him back to his home on Kamino. Master Sifo-Dyas was killed long before Obi-Wan ever found the Clones, otherwise I'd say as soon as they need came, he would have revealed their existence. With an Army at their disposal and a conflict on Geonosis brewing, the Jedi put the Clones to work.
Image
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
EasyModeMitch
Unsung Hero
Posts: 177
Joined: May 18, '15, 11:13am
XBL: EasyModeMitch
PSN: Classicgutes

Re: Star Wars episodes 1-3

May 11, '17, 10:32pm

Mavryk wrote:
Raging Light wrote:, good villain (until he got his ass kicked that is)


You had me until there. THAT was the villain they thought could follow up Vader with? He's just as whiny and bratty as Anakin, and Isn't berated as such because he was played by a great actor. Not a single thing about that character was original or interesting in my opinion.

Things the Prequels did better than TFA:
> Villains - Maul and Palpatine are easy better than Kylo and Snoke.
> Story - The chess game Palpatine plays throughout the Prequels is masterful, and while the writing and dialogue was horrible, it was an original story that flipped the original trilogy on it's head. Think about it, the Trade Federation was the Rebellion, same as the Separatists. Except this time the Heroes were on the powerful side and had to quash the rebellion. What makes it all the more tragic is that the Separatists were right, even if their methods were extreme.
> Soundtracks - I love TFA's soundtrack, but when compared to the prequels, John Williams went for a more subtle approach.
> New toys for the sandbox - People often complain how movies were only made for Toys, and in a way that's a good thing. How many of us grew up either playing with those toys and coming up with our own stories? Having new characters, new ships, new locations was fantastic. Most of TFA's "new" vehicles were just new models of old ships (X-Wings/TIES/Star Destroyers). The only new new ship that I can think of from TFA was Leia's shuttle type of thing, which is rather bland. Not only does this hurt the toys, it hurts the various games and other media from having new content to play with.
> Have a consistent lore: So many things about TFA made no sense. Like Starkiller basing firing from across many systems to hit 5 nearby planets? There's no way those planets would line up like that. Not to mention having the heroes view the explosions from Tokodana without any repercussions. If the planet was that close to see a system explode, it would have felt it. Then there is the dumb cross-saber idea that makes no in-universe sense. Rey's powers... She went from Luke ep 4 to Luke ep 6 in the space of a few days without any training at all. They will have to do a shit ton of back peddling to explain it.
> Written by George Lucas - This is probably a con for a lot of people, but I think it makes them more legitimate. Where Rogue One felt like an addition to Lucas' story, TFA felt like a fanfilm. A very expensive fan film that tried to remake the entire OT in one film. Lucas, for all his many faults, atleast tried not to retread old stories, or put a unique spin on them.


I'm still reserving judgement on Kylo and Snoke, but I can agree that so far its not the character direction I was hoping for. I would have loved a Sauron-style ultra evil and powerful character. Maybe a ressurected Markos Ragnos or something like that.
portilloTrueLove

REYM3R
Producer
Posts: 245
Joined: Jun 01, '15, 12:49am
Position/Title: Producer/Seducer
Location: Williams Lake BC
XBL: REYM3R
PSN: TheOnlyREYM3R
Contact: Twitter YouTube Twitch

Re: Star Wars episodes 1-3

May 12, '17, 7:43am

Julianmgs wrote:
Chaz2132005 wrote:What's wrong with anakin?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqTilCyRyvc


Maybe it's just me but I found most of this video completely fine
Balor Club 4 Life

User avatar
HavokX
Shadow Boxer
Posts: 676
Joined: Jun 07, '15, 8:19pm
PSN: Havok83

Star Wars episodes 1-3

May 12, '17, 1:32pm

JerrodDRagon wrote:
HavokX wrote:Episode 3 is the best of the trilogy. The other two were pure garbage, especially Phantom Menace

I'll fight you on that...Clone Wars
Is by far the worst movie....bad everything even the ending sucks.

At least Phantom Menace has a badass fight scene at the end....Clone Wars feels both rushed and slow all at the same time. With GIANT leaps of what the fuck is going on here from Doku (so he hates the republic for being controlled by the sith...yet he works for the sith?)...the trade federation once again risking everything for revenge? Form Padme and Anikin who never really loves the other...Anikin just thinks she is hot (he hates politics) and she finds him creepy and childish in the start and then Anikin murders Sandpeople children and is just ok with it? Obi Wan also is a lucky mouth fucker for finding the clones. Also if the Clones are being made why hide them?
So many fucking BS shit going on at least the other two make sense and don't feel as plot holey and forced as this film.

Im confused. So exactly what about my post are you disputing?
Image

User avatar
JerrodDRagon
Pride of the Forums
Posts: 2571
Joined: May 18, '15, 11:24am

Star Wars episodes 1-3

May 12, '17, 1:36pm

HavokX wrote:
JerrodDRagon wrote:
HavokX wrote:Episode 3 is the best of the trilogy. The other two were pure garbage, especially Phantom Menace

I'll fight you on that...Clone Wars
Is by far the worst movie....bad everything even the ending sucks.

At least Phantom Menace has a badass fight scene at the end....Clone Wars feels both rushed and slow all at the same time. With GIANT leaps of what the fuck is going on here from Doku (so he hates the republic for being controlled by the sith...yet he works for the sith?)...the trade federation once again risking everything for revenge? Form Padme and Anikin who never really loves the other...Anikin just thinks she is hot (he hates politics) and she finds him creepy and childish in the start and then Anikin murders Sandpeople children and is just ok with it? Obi Wan also is a lucky mouth fucker for finding the clones. Also if the Clones are being made why hide them?
So many fucking BS shit going on at least the other two make sense and don't feel as plot holey and forced as this film.

Im confused. So exactly what about my post are you disputing?

My bad, misread as two was better then one

And since I hate two so much...could not let it stand but....hey I think the first film is fine (not good but not bad either) but I get why it also really sucks (bas acting, bad script, Maul looks cool but doesn't say much)

Stephen8D
Best Friend
Posts: 12
Joined: Jul 10, '15, 8:53pm

Star Wars episodes 1-3

May 12, '17, 8:59pm

Episode 1 turned the most villain-est villain into an adorable kid. Episode 2 was a bad love story.
Episode 3 had Hayden Chistensen acting horribly as a bad guy.

These movies came out when I was a kid and I isn't really even like them then.

Some pros to the prequels include: Darth Maul, the Darth maul fight scene at the end of episode 1, watto. And that's it haha

User avatar
kento
Best Friend
Posts: 12
Joined: Dec 22, '15, 9:47am
Location: San Francisco
XBL: Daft Bot
PSN: Daft_Bunk
Steam: djkento
Contact: Website Facebook Twitter Twitch

Re: Star Wars episodes 1-3

May 19, '17, 1:41am

I recently started showing the Star Wars films to my friend's kids. We started with The Phantom Menace. I'm basically running an experiment on them. I want to see if the order of 1,2,4,5,6,3 works. What they think of it.

For reference they literally know nothing about Star Wars, have never seen a Star Wars film and it wasn't until their dad started becoming more of a main stream geek this year (in his 30s) that he even started wathcing Super Hero films. This is a household where the kids have seen all of Twin Peaks before they've seen a single Star Wars film.

Ok...

So the kids fucking LOVE it. They're desperately craving episode 2. They constantly ask "When can we watch the next one?" One of them went as far as to message me on his iPad because he wants to watch it so bad. I think we might watch it this week.

Anyway... Episode 1 TOTALLY slays for a 7 and 5 year old. He destroys. Oddest thing of all, they thought Jar Jar was a woman because of the high pitched voice words like "mooie mooie" Binks sounds girly to them as well. Pretty funny stuff.

You may hate Anakin, you might find him annoying. Guess what! Kids relate to him. He's a pretty bland template for kids to just thrust themselves upon. These kids are talking about podracing, and the force and it's DOPE. They think Anakin is the coolest kid ever. I can't wait to reveal everything in the coming weeks and months.
Image

User avatar
touchfuzzy
Shadow Boxer
Posts: 672
Joined: May 17, '15, 6:15pm
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada

Star Wars episodes 1-3

May 19, '17, 3:56pm

Mavryk wrote:
touchfuzzy wrote:They are horrible.

/thread


Thanks for the great addition to the conversation lol


But it's true.

If you think they are legitimately good movies, you're either a child or so blinded by bias you can't possibly have a level conversation about it.

They are, objectively, really bad. That's it.

It's like the Vietnamese village in Tropic Thunder who thought Simple Jack was the greatest movie ever because it was the only movie any of them had ever seen.
Image

User avatar
Mavryk
Management
Management
Posts: 5114
Joined: May 16, '15, 10:34pm
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
PSN: MavrykDH
Steam: mavryk_darkhaven
Contact: Twitter

Star Wars episodes 1-3

May 19, '17, 6:27pm

touchfuzzy wrote:But it's true.

If you think they are legitimately good movies, you're either a child or so blinded by bias you can't possibly have a level conversation about it.

They are, objectively, really bad. That's it.


"blinded by bias you can't possibly have a level conversation about it." - I think this adequately sums up your position on them. You immediately dismiss all conversation on it because of your own hate for them. That's fine, you can hate a movie all you want, but to come into a conversation ignore all the previous statements and then declare your opinion as absolute fact to kill the conversation isn't what being a part of a forum is about.
Image
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
touchfuzzy
Shadow Boxer
Posts: 672
Joined: May 17, '15, 6:15pm
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada

Star Wars episodes 1-3

May 21, '17, 8:40am

Mavryk wrote:
touchfuzzy wrote:But it's true.

If you think they are legitimately good movies, you're either a child or so blinded by bias you can't possibly have a level conversation about it.

They are, objectively, really bad. That's it.


"blinded by bias you can't possibly have a level conversation about it." - I think this adequately sums up your position on them. You immediately dismiss all conversation on it because of your own hate for them. That's fine, you can hate a movie all you want, but to come into a conversation ignore all the previous statements and then declare your opinion as absolute fact to kill the conversation isn't what being a part of a forum is about.


If someone made a thread saying "Hey, why does everyone hate Superman 64 and call it the worst game ever, I don't think it's that bad," everyone would laugh and say, "Yes, it is that bad. It is terrible." But you slap the name 'Star Wars' on it and people try to justify and defend it with long, ridiculous posts, desperately grasping for reasons why they're maybe okay. They're just bad, boring movies. It's okay. Let's pretend they never happened and move on with the new ones.
Image

shanethesaint88
Seducer
Posts: 572
Joined: Nov 11, '15, 5:45pm
Location: Louisiana
XBL: shanest88
PSN: shanethesaint88

Re: Star Wars episodes 1-3

May 21, '17, 9:00am

I like the Prequels! I really do. I will not argue there is bad writing in them. I will not argue they can be at times boring or not intriguing. However, when I was growing up those were my Star Wars movies. I was 6 when Phantom Menace came out. The original trilogy was those movies that looked old and boring to me back then. My Star Wars had lots of light sabers and fighting. Now of course as I grew older I realized how good the Original Trilogy was and its story telling was amazing but, I never grew to dislike the Prequels. I know many people love star wars because it is a common people vs evil empire story. Good troops vs bad troops. I always preferred the Jedi aspect to the movies. I don't wanna be joe schmoe rebel soldier. I wanna be luke or obi wan, with force powers and a lightsaber. That's why the Prequels speak to me more. Its more about Jedi and Sith than soldiers and AT-ATs. I think the best way to compare the two is this. The Original Trilogy is like the Godfather, A 3 part Epic of great story telling and character building. And the Prequels are great action movies with lots of fun fighting with a slightly good over arching story. They are just two different types of movies
Image

User avatar
Mavryk
Management
Management
Posts: 5114
Joined: May 16, '15, 10:34pm
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
PSN: MavrykDH
Steam: mavryk_darkhaven
Contact: Twitter

Star Wars episodes 1-3

May 23, '17, 3:40am

touchfuzzy wrote:If someone made a thread saying "Hey, why does everyone hate Superman 64 and call it the worst game ever, I don't think it's that bad," everyone would laugh and say, "Yes, it is that bad. It is terrible." But you slap the name 'Star Wars' on it and people try to justify and defend it with long, ridiculous posts, desperately grasping for reasons why they're maybe okay. They're just bad, boring movies. It's okay. Let's pretend they never happened and move on with the new ones.


Again, that's your opinion. This is a forum aka a discussion board. If people want to discuss what they like and don't like about the prequels, that's fine. Just in the same way that if someone truly thought that Superman 64 was worth talking about, more power to them. It's just when people try to kill the conversation and don't add anything to the conversation that I am going to call it out. And personally, I would rather Episode VII never happened than the prequels, as atleast the prequels spawned some fantastic stories, characters, ships and locations. Nothing from Ep7 is worth anything, especially when they threw away good material for the sake of it. I really hope 8 and 9 will rectify it.
Image
► Show Spoiler

Return to “Movies”