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Ponthegan
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Re: Thoughts On Naturalistic/Alternative Medicine

Jan 24, '17, 9:28pm

BuffArms wrote:My current idea is anything that says natural and has to have a disclaimer on it saying the FDA has not evaluated its claims. Of course there are naturally occurring compounds, minerals, oils that have been scientifically proven to show a positive effect, and are proscribed by licensed medical professionals.

The /alternative in the topic title also points to things that arent backed by the AMA, FDA...


So even in your definition of natural, holistic, and alternative medicine you interpret it negatively. This is no good.

Also, no of course alternative medicine is "backed," as you put it, by the AMA, just as a psychologists wouldn't be backed by the American Medical Association; psychologists are "backed" by the American Psychological Assciation because that's their scope of practice. Acupuncture is overseen by the AAAOM. Also, acupuncture is slowly being integrated within the FDA now too (they regulate needle use), but each state has their own regulatory board that oversees and examines acupuncture.

Incidentally, much of what is under the umbrella term "natural" is science-based. The school I go to (https://m.bastyr.edu) is an accredited institution with a multimillion dollar research division with various, nationally recognized, degrees and certificates encapsulating everything from the herbal sciences to naturopathic doctorate degrees.

Here's just a small taste of what our research department is doing now (note that all of the research proposal go through the very same approval process as every other allopathic research proposal does in America:

Comparisons of the Flavonoids Isorhamnetin, Kaempferol and Quercetin — in Ginkgo biloba, Using HPLC
Students: Doria McGahey and Shannon Smith
Faculty Advisor: Kaleb Lund, PhD, RH (AHG)

What Do Registered Dietitians Know About Islamic Dietary Practices?
Student: Katie Isberg
Faculty Advisors: June Kloubec, PhD, Michelle Thall, PhD, and Patrice Savery, MA

Saccharomyces boulardii and Its Effects on Bacterial Pathogens
Student: Megan Justice
Faculty Advisor: Rebecca Achterman, PhD

Midwifery Care in Rural Communities: Outcomes From a Cohort of Planned Home or Birth Center Births in the U.S.
Student: Elizabeth Nethery, MSc
Faculty Advisor: Wendy Gordon, MPH, CPM, LM

The Effects of Caffeinated Beverage Consumption and Physical Activity on Current Disability Status in Multiple Sclerosis
Student: Jessica Bart-Greenough
Faculty Advisors: Cristen Harris, PhD, RDN, CD, CSSD, CES, Cynthia Wenner, PhD, June Kloubec, PhD, and Laurie Mischley, ND, PhD, MPH

Challenges for Children’s Prosthetic Feet: Kinetic Data for Walking and Running in Real-World Locations
Student: Christopher Villarosa
Faculty Advisor: Michael Orendurff
Other: Toshiki Kobayashi, Arjan Buis, Anthony McGarry, Teri Rosenbaum-Chou, Wayne Daly, David Hensley, Adam Arabian

Is Social Health Associated with Parkinson’s Disease Severity Score?
Students: Rachel Bennett, MPH and Blake Kovner
Faculty Advisor: Laurie Mischley, ND, PhD, MPH

Knowledge, Utility and Perceived Trustworthiness of Different Gluten-Free Claim Labels in Individuals Who Follow a Gluten-Free Diet
Student: Sadie S. Nagle
Faculty Advisor: Cynthia Bartok, PhD, RD

Describing Self-Perceived Health Behaviors, Attitudes and Knowledge of Adults Who Participate in Edible Community Gardens
Student: Jean Denton
Faculty Advisor: Alexandra Kazaks, PhD, RDN

What is the Effect of a Pitta-Specific Ayurvedic Diet on Symptoms and Biomarkers in People with IBS-D?
Student: Jessica Bedi
Faculty Advisors: Alexandra Kazaks, PhD, RDN, Dhaval Dhru, MD, and William Dean, MD

Standardization of Banisteriopsis caapi: Towards an FDA-Approved Phase I Trial of B. caapi in Parkinson’s Disease
Student: Hayley Prescott
Faculty Advisors: Leanna Standish, PhD, and Kaleb Lund, PhD, RH (AHG)

Antifungal Effects of Tea Tree Oil and Garlic: A Combinational Minimum Inhibitory Concentration Assay
Students: Robert Seiberlich and Stephanie Sutherland
Faculty Advisor: Rebecca Achterman, PhD

Apoptosis-Inducing Herbs for Prostate Cancer Prevention and Treatment
Students: Benjamin Hawthorne and Easter Ho
Faculty Advisors: Kaleb Lund, PhD, RH (AHG), and Jing Meng, MD, PhD

Something like that Jade rock that Gwyneth Paltrow sells for vaginas.


That's a low ball sir, and there is no professor here that would support that type of self-practice anyway. This "version" of alternative medicine as you're depicting is a far cry from what we do here at Bastyr or any other respectable naturopathic institution.

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Eve Narlieth
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Re: Thoughts On Naturalistic/Alternative Medicine

Jan 25, '17, 2:59am

Ponthegan wrote:
Comparisons of the Flavonoids Isorhamnetin, Kaempferol and Quercetin — in Ginkgo biloba, Using HPLC
Students: Doria McGahey and Shannon Smith
Faculty Advisor: Kaleb Lund, PhD, RH (AHG)


I learnt that kinda of stuff in my Biology degree. My uni had a Phytochemistry department (plant chemistry). This example is literally that. So I guess for skeptics, this is a good indication (?).

I think you're right that there's an issue with classification. Soy isoflavonoids are considered naturalistic medicine, from what I understand. Would you say that old Aspirin was too? Not the currently (safer) synthetically produced one, but the original used salicylic acid. Would the distinction between the old and current use (naturalistic? x traditional medicine) be the fact that now they are synthetically produced and can't be extracted from willow in that specific (less irritant) form?

I find those lines a bit blurry. Maybe you can offer some insight
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Ponthegan
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Re: Thoughts On Naturalistic/Alternative Medicine

Feb 02, '17, 3:51am

Hey! I'm terribly sorry it has taken me so long to reply to you.

Eve Narlieth wrote:
I think you're right that there's an issue with classification. Soy isoflavonoids are considered naturalistic medicine, from what I understand. Would you say that old Aspirin was too? Not the currently (safer) synthetically produced one, but the original used salicylic acid. Would the distinction between the old and current use (naturalistic? x traditional medicine) be the fact that now they are synthetically produced and can't be extracted from willow in that specific (less irritant) form?



Natural medicine is just what it sounds like, "natural" in that it is not synthetically produced. I think that what people get hooked-up on is that if you're a: natural, or hollisitic, or alternative medicine health care provider that you can't/won't use traditional medicine at all. This is entirely absurd. You ask anyone who is an actual, registered ND, and they will tell that they use traditional western medicine all the time and will oft reffer patients out to specialists when they know they need to. Our job isn't to sequester people isn't this narrow mind of thinking that it's the "natural way" or the highway.

In your case about the Aspirin, would we (referring to the natural/holistic community) tell people to take salicylate over Aspirin? Most would so no, absolutely not, that's just silly.

What we do is offer is an alternative way of approaching problems these problems and will do our very best to try and actually cure the disease and not just the symptom. So again, in the case of the Aspirin, before we would suggest that to our client(s), we would try and figure out why they need that in the first place, and attempt to cure them of the primary cause "naturally."

A lot of people bring up Steve Jobs and point out that if he had actually went with more traditional/Western medicine that he might still be alive. I agree, as most alternative/natural health practitioners would, and what most people also don't realize i that many of the alternative medicine HCPs that he went to actively tried to get him to do just that because even they knew that his condition was far out of the scope of medicine they practiced. We're not here to hurt people, we want you to get better, we know our limits and understand our role in the healthcare system.

Anyway, I know I'm plugging Bastyr again, but it the school I go to and I know all of what I know through them so it seems ingenuine of me to refer to anyone else, but here's their page on Naturopathic Doctors

Also, I'm still compiling and working on my first draft of responses to many of the questions, comments and concerns that were brought up earlier in this thread. I don't know when I'll get a chance to finalize and publish that, but I will continue and try to answer smaller/easier questions on a case--by-case basis as theyr'e brought up.

I hope this answers your question completely Eve Narlieth (love the name by the way, dunno what it means, but it sounds like it could have been pulled from Tolkien)

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Re: Thoughts On Naturalistic/Alternative Medicine

Feb 02, '17, 5:32am

I feel alternative medicine should be considered as a component to traditional/western medicine, rather than a replacement of it.

I feel like things such as acupuncture are a great avenue to offer to those suffering from different maladies, just as I feel like looking at the health of the person in direct relation to their diet is essential to any practitioner. To truly evaluate how the food we eat impacts our overall health and biological state. We have forgone the attempt to regulate diet and what we eat, and replaced it with: just take this pill and you'll be better. Sometimes we are, other times not.

That said, I think there is a place for western medicine. There are times were no amount of alternative medicine will fix a worn out knee, cancer, or fix a tooth with a cavity.

But I think both can, and should co-exist to provide the best chance to the patient -- if they so choose to actually do what's needed (and most don't)
Disclaimer: The statements made above are in no way a reflection of my education and intelligence level. Any lapses in logic,, grammatical or misspelling errors are completely the result of my lifelong inability to proof read well. You've been warned. portilloIndeed

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Eve Narlieth
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Re: Thoughts On Naturalistic/Alternative Medicine

Feb 02, '17, 5:37am

Ponthegan wrote:Hey! I'm terribly sorry it has taken me so long to reply to you.


Natural medicine is just what it sounds like, "natural" in that it is not synthetically produced. I think that what people get hooked-up on is that if you're a: natural, or hollisitic, or alternative medicine health care provider that you can't/won't use traditional medicine at all. This is entirely absurd. You ask anyone who is an actual, registered ND, and they will tell that they use traditional western medicine all the time and will oft reffer patients out to specialists when they know they need to. Our job isn't to sequester people isn't this narrow mind of thinking that it's the "natural way" or the highway.

In your case about the Aspirin, would we (referring to the natural/holistic community) tell people to take salicylate over Aspirin? Most would so no, absolutely not, that's just silly.

I hope this answers your question completely Eve Narlieth (love the name by the way, dunno what it means, but it sounds like it could have been pulled from Tolkien)


Thanks for the answer :). I do respect doctors that practice naturalistic medicine with responsibility. Didn't know Steve Jobs tried using alternative medicine to cure himself.. I don't really follow celebrities' lives. Seems like an odd choice.

Eve is part of my name and I got Narlieth out of an elven name generator :) haha
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Re: Thoughts On Naturalistic/Alternative Medicine

Sep 12, '17, 6:10am

Over the past few years people have changed their attitude to conventional methods of treatment and more likely try alternative medicine. I would personally suggest to go for a registered consultant or doctor for any treatment. kfwink

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Re: Thoughts On Naturalistic/Alternative Medicine

Sep 12, '17, 9:18am

Honestly, I find myself in the camp of: if it works, I'm doing it. Acupunture, however, never did it, for me, sadly; but I'm so fucking against the ropes (again) that I'm going to the wife's doctor one more time, on thursday. Gonna try again, before my next procedure - that's scheduled for next week - one last ditch effort, am I right?

When you're desperate, you do try everything, right? portilloPure1
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Re: Thoughts On Naturalistic/Alternative Medicine

Sep 12, '17, 1:55pm

CBD's... not just a bunch of hippy bullshit.
"...fuck it dude, let's go bowling."

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