User avatar
The_Almighty_Foofy
Baller
Posts: 1258
Joined: Jun 04, '15, 3:24pm
Location: Temple Hills, MD
XBL: A 2Piece Combo
PSN: PhantomPain20xx
NNID: SW-5606-2665-3891
Steam: atomic_pingas
Contact: Facebook Twitter Twitch

Re: Iron Fist

May 15, '17, 5:45am

Mavryk wrote:
The_Almighty_Foofy wrote:I'm on episode 5 or 6 and while its nowhere near as bad as reviews make it out to be, I find its biggest flaw is that it's just boring at points. The martial arts action in it just is not good. Its bad when Colleen Wing's action scenes play better than the titular hero's. Whoever the fight choreographer is for Iron Fist is just not good. Danny is supposed to be a martial arts master with a superhuman ability. I want to see him act like it. Be a whirling dervish of punches, kicks, and general asskickery. It all moves slow and uneventful. I find better action scenes watching Into the Badlands. Comparing what I've seen so far to the few seconds we've seen of Iron Fist in action in the Defenders trailer is just night and day. From what I hear, the fight choreographer from Daredevil is on Defenders and frankly it shows. That's probably my biggest gripe with the series. I'm sticking it through but so far, Iron Fist is definitely near the bottom of my favorite Netflix Marvel shows. Daredevil Season 2 still holds the crown (dat Punisher doe).


Into the Badlands has some great choreography, but it's helped by Wire-Fu and being able to suspend disbelief when that's on screen. The Marvel shows are supposed to be grounded (ish) in their fighting style.

Currently my ranking of the shows are as follows:

Daredevil S2 - The Punisher and Elektra really helped the show and I liked not having Fisk as the centre of attention.
Jessica Jones - From start to finish JJ is fantastic, I love the premise of it being a Superhero with PTSD. Plus David Tennant as Kilgrave is the best MCU villain.
Daredevil S1 - Fantastic show that set the benchmark.
Iron Fist - Both Colleen and Claire Temple's involvement in the show was great to watch, and the nebulous nature of who the villain was was a nice change.
Luke Cage - Enjoyable, I like the character and the vibe, but the villains were lacking. Not so much in performances but as to a threat for someone who is indestructible.


You are right, though I might argue that even though the fights are supposed to be grounded, its telling when Daredevil fights are cooler to watch than Iron Fist's and Daredevil is pretty much a normal person compared to Danny's ability but you are right.

And your ranking is pretty much the same as mines, though I'd swap Luke Cage and Iron Fist thus far. As weak as Iron Fist has been thus far, it doesn't diminish my desire to see Danny in the Defenders. Hell for as much as I didn't like the first Thor movie, Thor in the Avengers was great.
"It's easy to tell the difference between right and wrong. What's hard is choosing the wrong that's more right."

"Ore wa Gundam da"
Image

User avatar
Mavryk
Management
Management
Posts: 5471
Joined: May 16, '15, 10:34pm
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
PSN: MavrykDH
Steam: mavryk_darkhaven
Contact: Twitter

Re: Iron Fist

May 15, '17, 5:53am

The_Almighty_Foofy wrote:You are right, though I might argue that even though the fights are supposed to be grounded, its telling when Daredevil fights are cooler to watch than Iron Fist's and Daredevil is pretty much a normal person compared to Danny's ability but you are right.

And your ranking is pretty much the same as mines, though I'd swap Luke Cage and Iron Fist thus far. As weak as Iron Fist has been thus far, it doesn't diminish my desire to see Danny in the Defenders. Hell for as much as I didn't like the first Thor movie, Thor in the Avengers was great.


I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but the difference between Daredevil and Iron Fist's fights is that one was at night and the other is in the day. When it's broad day light, the fight's don't look as impressive (As people talk about with Batman fighting Bane in daylight looking corny compared to the rest of the trilogy).

I did a quick IMDB search of the Choreographer, and included in his list of credits was Marco Polo which was a fantastic show to watch. So maybe Daredevil set the bar too high on that one.
Image
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
BedaHouse
Shadow Boxer
Posts: 810
Joined: Dec 29, '16, 4:26am
Location: oHio
NNID: SW-7247-7185-4510
Contact: Twitter

Re: Iron Fist

May 15, '17, 5:58am

CallSignStarbucks wrote:There are numerous reasons this season doesn't work but I think that a lot of it has to do with Finn Jones. He's... bad. He's not interesting to watch on screen and he's not a physical presence whatsoever. .



I understand the complaint. I found him annoying in the first half of the season, if not through most of it. But I am not sure if thats the actor, or the character/director/writing that put him in that position. I don't mind him being lean and un-imposing, as martial arts isn't predicated on being the biggest in the group, but I get what you mean. I just don't feel like they created the character VERY well from the get go.


The_Almighty_Foofy wrote:I'm on episode 5 or 6 and while its nowhere near as bad as reviews make it out to be, I find its biggest flaw is that it's just boring at points. I'm sticking it through but so far, Iron Fist is definitely near the bottom of my favorite Netflix Marvel shows. Daredevil Season 2 still holds the crown (dat Punisher doe).


Absolutely. That was my complaint as well. I feel like they could have made it a 9 episode series and been just as effective. Seems there are 2-3 episodes where you just go over stuff everyone already knew. The Hand's presence, etc is really interesting, but the season kind of wanders to the end.
Disclaimer: The statements made above are in no way a reflection of my education and intelligence level. Any lapses in logic,, grammatical or misspelling errors are completely the result of my lifelong inability to proof read well. You've been warned. portilloIndeed

User avatar
CallSignStarbucks
Producer
Posts: 391
Joined: May 18, '15, 9:08am
Location: United States
Contact: Twitter

Re: Iron Fist

May 15, '17, 7:42am

BedaHouse wrote:
CallSignStarbucks wrote:There are numerous reasons this season doesn't work but I think that a lot of it has to do with Finn Jones. He's... bad. He's not interesting to watch on screen and he's not a physical presence whatsoever. .



I understand the complaint. I found him annoying in the first half of the season, if not through most of it. But I am not sure if thats the actor, or the character/director/writing that put him in that position. I don't mind him being lean and un-imposing, as martial arts isn't predicated on being the biggest in the group, but I get what you mean. I just don't feel like they created the character VERY well from the get go.


I just don't think he brought much to the table in terms of Danny Rand. If you want to make a comparison to a DC character, consider Stephen Amell as Oliver Queen. They have similar backstories and while OQ doesn't have a mystical fist, their mission is more or less the same (sins of the father, reclaim the city, etc etc) yet Queen winds up as a much more interesting character. Even in just the first season, if we want to compare episode length.

I also found there to be some large inconsistencies with Iron Fist's powers. He's the immortal Iron Fist, bested all of Kun Lun to get the power, but a random security guard is able to sneak up on him and beat the shit out of him? Stuff like that adds to his lack of presence, I think. I'm not expecting him to be huge like Luke Cage or anything like that. But someone like Daredevil, who has a very similar fighting style, is way more imposing than Danny Rand has been.

Even in the Defenders trailer he looks so small and tiny compared to everyone else (even Jessica Jones) and it's both hilarious and really sad.

User avatar
BedaHouse
Shadow Boxer
Posts: 810
Joined: Dec 29, '16, 4:26am
Location: oHio
NNID: SW-7247-7185-4510
Contact: Twitter

Re: Iron Fist

May 15, '17, 9:58am

CallSignStarbucks wrote:
I just don't think he brought much to the table in terms of Danny Rand. If you want to make a comparison to a DC character, consider Stephen Amell as Oliver Queen. They have similar backstories and while OQ doesn't have a mystical fist, their mission is more or less the same (sins of the father, reclaim the city, etc etc) yet Queen winds up as a much more interesting character. Even in just the first season, if we want to compare episode length.


That's fair. I see what you mean.


CallSignStarbucks wrote:I also found there to be some large inconsistencies with Iron Fist's powers. He's the immortal Iron Fist, bested all of Kun Lun to get the power, but a random security guard is able to sneak up on him and beat the shit out of him? Stuff like that adds to his lack of presence, I think. I'm not expecting him to be huge like Luke Cage or anything like that. But someone like Daredevil, who has a very similar fighting style, is way more imposing than Danny Rand has been.

Even in the Defenders trailer he looks so small and tiny compared to everyone else (even Jessica Jones) and it's both hilarious and really sad.


Yeah. I found it interesting that he didn't fully understand what he was entrusted with, and while they alluded to it, he left Khun Lun before even scratching the surface of the power he was bestowed (which ok, that's kinda weird). Kind of like James Bond getting a new slew of gadgets before Q had time to explain them all to him. Even as he didn't know how to recharge his Chi, etc. It allowed them to make him more "human" rather than using his fist to get out of every tight jam.

Perhaps I always saw Rand as a smaller character, I don't mind it as much - but I don't have any issue w/ people not seeing the character the same way. (Similar to the way Wolverine was originally introduced to the way he is presented in cinema/today)

All good points you brought up tho. I definitely didn't see the Green Arrow comparison, but I do now SeemsGood
Disclaimer: The statements made above are in no way a reflection of my education and intelligence level. Any lapses in logic,, grammatical or misspelling errors are completely the result of my lifelong inability to proof read well. You've been warned. portilloIndeed

User avatar
Mavryk
Management
Management
Posts: 5471
Joined: May 16, '15, 10:34pm
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
PSN: MavrykDH
Steam: mavryk_darkhaven
Contact: Twitter

Re: Iron Fist

May 15, '17, 8:55pm

CallSignStarbucks wrote:I also found there to be some large inconsistencies with Iron Fist's powers. He's the immortal Iron Fist, bested all of Kun Lun to get the power, but a random security guard is able to sneak up on him and beat the shit out of him? Stuff like that adds to his lack of presence, I think. I'm not expecting him to be huge like Luke Cage or anything like that. But someone like Daredevil, who has a very similar fighting style, is way more imposing than Danny Rand has been.

Even in the Defenders trailer he looks so small and tiny compared to everyone else (even Jessica Jones) and it's both hilarious and really sad.


My take on him being "immortal" is that the power is Immortal, and not Rand himself. And as BedaHouse said, he bailed out on his training as the Iron Fist way before he was supposed to, so he doesn't know the extent of his abilities yet (which is highlighted in the show). So essentially he's a Padawan Iron Fist, and has yet to live up to his name.
Image
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
BetoJR
Baller
Posts: 1339
Joined: Dec 30, '16, 6:55am
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
PSN: BetoJR_FOR
Contact: Twitter

Re: Iron Fist

May 16, '17, 5:07am

Mavryk wrote:My take on him being "immortal" is that the power is Immortal, and not Rand himself.

You're absolutely right. SeemsGood
Image

User avatar
HavokX
Shadow Boxer
Posts: 736
Joined: Jun 07, '15, 8:19pm
PSN: Havok83

Re: Iron Fist

May 16, '17, 5:20am

The problem is that it was boring. The best part of the series was Colleen Wing

IMO they should do a major revamp for season 2. Bring in Luke Cage and Misty Knight and essentially make it Heroes for Hire with Danny as lead

Image
Image

User avatar
CallSignStarbucks
Producer
Posts: 391
Joined: May 18, '15, 9:08am
Location: United States
Contact: Twitter

Re: Iron Fist

May 16, '17, 9:25am

Mavryk wrote:
CallSignStarbucks wrote:I also found there to be some large inconsistencies with Iron Fist's powers. He's the immortal Iron Fist, bested all of Kun Lun to get the power, but a random security guard is able to sneak up on him and beat the shit out of him? Stuff like that adds to his lack of presence, I think. I'm not expecting him to be huge like Luke Cage or anything like that. But someone like Daredevil, who has a very similar fighting style, is way more imposing than Danny Rand has been.

Even in the Defenders trailer he looks so small and tiny compared to everyone else (even Jessica Jones) and it's both hilarious and really sad.


My take on him being "immortal" is that the power is Immortal, and not Rand himself. And as BedaHouse said, he bailed out on his training as the Iron Fist way before he was supposed to, so he doesn't know the extent of his abilities yet (which is highlighted in the show). So essentially he's a Padawan Iron Fist, and has yet to live up to his name.


Right, I never meant to imply that Danny Rand could now live forever. But the title is meaningful and isn't given to just anyone. If he's that shitty of an Iron Fist and still managed to best everyone in Kun Lun, I have to wonder about the capabilities of their warriors.

User avatar
BetoJR
Baller
Posts: 1339
Joined: Dec 30, '16, 6:55am
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
PSN: BetoJR_FOR
Contact: Twitter

Re: Iron Fist

May 16, '17, 9:47am

CallSignStarbucks wrote:Right, I never meant to imply that Danny Rand could now live forever. But the title is meaningful and isn't given to just anyone. If he's that shitty of an Iron Fist and still managed to best everyone in Kun Lun, I have to wonder about the capabilities of their warriors.

Well, that's the thing... a martial artist is not a perfect being. Daredevil probably wouldn't be caught by surprise like that because of his acute senses, but Danny is a bit more "grounded", in a way. Also, he didn't really lose any of his fights, did he?
Alternatively, ol' hornhead couldn't save someone like the puny blond kid did, when he was properly instructed by Bakuto, now could he?

So, there are layers to these things and I wouldn't really presume to say who's the better warrior.

It depends on who's writing the story, anyway. kftongue
Image

User avatar
Mavryk
Management
Management
Posts: 5471
Joined: May 16, '15, 10:34pm
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
PSN: MavrykDH
Steam: mavryk_darkhaven
Contact: Twitter

Re: Iron Fist

May 16, '17, 6:39pm

CallSignStarbucks wrote:Right, I never meant to imply that Danny Rand could now live forever. But the title is meaningful and isn't given to just anyone. If he's that shitty of an Iron Fist and still managed to best everyone in Kun Lun, I have to wonder about the capabilities of their warriors.


I imagine it's a different thing to fight someone in a 1 on 1 style in a training situation compared to someone randomly fighting you on the street. But let's face it, it's only to make the story progress in the way they want it to, and unfortunately that means "weakening" Iron Fist temporarily to do so.
Image
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
CallSignStarbucks
Producer
Posts: 391
Joined: May 18, '15, 9:08am
Location: United States
Contact: Twitter

Re: Iron Fist

May 16, '17, 10:20pm

BetoJR wrote:
CallSignStarbucks wrote:Right, I never meant to imply that Danny Rand could now live forever. But the title is meaningful and isn't given to just anyone. If he's that shitty of an Iron Fist and still managed to best everyone in Kun Lun, I have to wonder about the capabilities of their warriors.

Well, that's the thing... a martial artist is not a perfect being. Daredevil probably wouldn't be caught by surprise like that because of his acute senses, but Danny is a bit more "grounded", in a way. Also, he didn't really lose any of his fights, did he?
Alternatively, ol' hornhead couldn't save someone like the puny blond kid did, when he was properly instructed by Bakuto, now could he?

So, there are layers to these things and I wouldn't really presume to say who's the better warrior.

It depends on who's writing the story, anyway. kftongue


...he has a glowing fist that he powers up with chi. He's no more grounded than JJ is lol. If he's got this energy, you'd think he'd able to know when he's being threatened or something. Whether he lost or not doesn't really matter because most of his fights were unimpressive. He barely scraped by.

I think I'd have less of an issue if his opponents were more capable people. Daredevil gets the shit kicked out of him by another ninja, or the Punisher, and that makes total sense. Iron Fist fights a security guard and barely makes it out alive.

Anyways, that's only a drop in the bucket of issue I have with this abysmal excuse for a television show.

User avatar
CallSignStarbucks
Producer
Posts: 391
Joined: May 18, '15, 9:08am
Location: United States
Contact: Twitter

Re: Iron Fist

May 16, '17, 10:23pm

Mavryk wrote:
CallSignStarbucks wrote:Right, I never meant to imply that Danny Rand could now live forever. But the title is meaningful and isn't given to just anyone. If he's that shitty of an Iron Fist and still managed to best everyone in Kun Lun, I have to wonder about the capabilities of their warriors.


I imagine it's a different thing to fight someone in a 1 on 1 style in a training situation compared to someone randomly fighting you on the street. But let's face it, it's only to make the story progress in the way they want it to, and unfortunately that means "weakening" Iron Fist temporarily to do so.


If nothing else this speaks to the lack of polish and quality to the writing.

Return to “TV Series”